Vegans for Palestine Podcast - Episode 10 - Reviewing 'the Ultra-Zionists' & 'The Settlers'

Louis Theroux documentary 'The Settlers' is making waves across social media. In this episode, Dalal and Rayan look at both of Theroux's documentaries on Palestine and point out the importance of centring Palestinian narratives in charting the israeli colonial project's efforts to colonise Palestine.

This episode has captions adjusted & edited for Deaf and Hard of Hearing viewers.  Available here.

'If you were shocked by my film on Israeli settlers in the West Bank, you haven’t been paying attention' by Louis Theroux. Read here

What does H1 and H2 in Hebron mean?

Carolina Pedrazzi - 'They like parading their power': In Hebron, a case study in Israeli apartheid'. Read here 

Opening track (Palestine chant) listen here.

The Palestinian musician featured in this episode is Jowan Safadi (a vegan from Akka, Palestine). 

Follow Jowan here.

Read about Jowan here - Palestinian Art During Genocide: An Interview with Jowan Safadi and Haneen Odetallah.

The Vegans for Palestine Podcast team appreciate Jowan's outstanding music. Please follow and support Jowan's work.

From the River to the Sea.      

Transcript

Episode 10 Transcript.

Crowd chanting: ♪♪From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free! From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free! From the river to the sea, ♪♪Palestine will be free! From the river to the sea, ♪♪ Palestine will be free! From the river to the sea, ♪♪Palestine will be free! ♪♪From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free! ♪♪ From the river to the sea, ♪♪Palestine will be free! From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free! ♪♪

RAYAN: In recent times, on social media, everyone's raving about the Louis Theroux documentaries, one has come out recently- a sequel to one that he did in 2011m which was called ‘The Ultra Zionists’ and the most recent one published this year on the BBC, I think, is actually called ‘The Settlers’ and in some ways what Louis Theroux is trying to do is he's trying to understand through his white lens he's trying to understand the predicament of what is happening in Palestine he fails on so many levels which we'll talk about today but it's so important we talk about it because we're seeing the extensions of the Nakba and the Naksa every single day. 

DALAL: 77 years of Nakba this year of the catastrophe of the Palestinian people that started in 1948 with the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians living and witnessing the atrocities of Israeli occupation back in 1947 and 48 and now where we are today it's just a continuation of that but I think yeah when what you see through these documentaries it's always the Palestinian voice is always absent the Palestinian background story is absent and when it's there even if the Palestinian even if, I'm quoting you Muhammad Al-Kurd, even if there is a Palestinian voice involved in that story in in whatever way there is always a lot of justification with empathy and softness and gentleness towards showing and making that Jewish settler voice heard to justify what they're saying one of the first things that I was reading about people's review of the settlers documentary and then going back to the ultra-Zionists they're both really an extension to each other so what really starts with the symbolism of how Theroux is taking the back seat like literally taking the back seat in the car that is driving him around the occupied Palestinian West Bank, and he's going inside of Jerusalem but then he's talking about the east and the west where with the Jews and the Arabs, and I'm thinking these ‘Arabs’ are called Palestinians, and that Arab neighbourhood was is the Palestinian neighbourhood that is occupied by this Jewish entity, but he's not telling that story so he is immediately set in that frame that this is an ‘Arab VS Jewish conflict’ situation, so he's talking about the Arab population and then throughout the documentary you will see and hear a Palestinian who's really trying to make his voice heard, protesting the aggression that he sees from the settlers, who are represented by this private investor who is soliciting the houses to the settlers, but he is gatekeeping all that information about how this is done, and then you go back into that narrative of this occupation is entirely in Jerusalem, particularly it's entirely that ‘dispute’ over properties but nobody talks about the colonialism there, and then again you go back to the settlers and Theroux is literally driving, he is the one who is taking the charge in a way to show you that ‘I'm going around I'm going to give these settlers the voice to speak for themselves about what they're doing’, and in a way that it's good you get to hear the settlers speaking and talking about the things that they're doing with no shame, and one of the things that is stands out is like in the first documentary, the settlers are not seen with any gun or any machinery on them, so you just see the settler going around like through the groves, through the like in the open Palestinian like farmlands, and they're telling you that we're here illegally but we're here to stay were not going to be pushed away, and then when you move forward to The Settlers, the second documentary, the settlers are fully armed and they're not taking or putting away their gun even though Theroux is joking about that in one of the segments where he says "Oh you don't feel safe around me." for I think this very simple imagery it shows you a lot about how this militarization of settlers has been really one of the key players into arming the settlers giving them that sense of protection because this is all for their security and their safety, that's the story we keep hearing around but then there is really no justification and no Palestinian story that these settlers are actually taking over the Palestinians homes and lands and farmlands and properties, so for them to feel ‘safe’ inside the occupied Palestinian lands, they're like they're keeping themselves protected with with guns and they're up in arms all the time but like the documentaries both of them they don't really tell you the story that these are Palestinian homes and these are Palestinian lands, that Palestinians are kicked out, and killed, and shot, and arrested to clean or empty, so that the settler can just walk in and move in like he doesn't tell you how the settlers took over like he doesn't tell you we don't hear the Palestinian, we don't see the Palestinian who was kicked out of their house that the settlers are taken over and you you only just see tables and chairs and some furniture inside, but these are memories and stories of a Palestinian family that lived there, but again the Palestinian is not there in the picture, but in both the Palestinian voice is not there, even even with the short interactions that we got to see in the first documentaries with the ultra-Zionists, Palestinians were shown in a way that they were in the middle of the self-defence against the quote unquote ‘IDF’, throwing  the grenades on them after the Friday prayer ,because they were protesting against that closure, and against that land confiscation. With the fences that we saw around because these fences are for ‘safety’ and ‘security’ for settlers and for occupation they don't tell you that these fences quote unquote are the obstructions and the barriers that are standing between the Palestinian and accessibility to their lands and to their farms and to their olive trees. 

RAYAN: The platforming of white voices with regards to white Israeli colonial voices is not new, and what we know is that even progressives themselves who claim to be supportive of Palestinians still centre whiteness with regards to our story. What's interesting about the first documentary is that you have a white South African, a white Australian, a white American - all purporting to be indigenous to our homeland, all claiming with the same religious texts that they've misread misinterpreted to say that apparently God is some real estate agent, and has given them our homelands. Going in invading, stealing homes, suppressing the local population, but then asking ‘why do they not like us’, it's the level of whiteness which is unbearably annoying, which we have to navigate through. Because on social media, we were told by a lot of non-Palestinian progressives that ‘you must watch this documentary, it will open your eyes’. It didn't do that for me, did it do that for you, Dalal? 

DALAL: I didn't see anything that I wasn't already living, but I was hoping there would be some really substantial history that tells the story before 1967, because in the second documentary he's just starting the story from 1967 and these are the outposts here in a way he was creating this visual idea that these outposts have nothing to do with the settlements that are officially built and supported and provided with all those infrastructure services by the government of Israel, so he was creating that sense of like ‘there are two parallel realities to occupation so the Israelis are and the settlers who are already in settlements or in 1948 occupied lands, they're completely different’ and the opposite and irrelevant to those who are taking over the lands around Palestinian neighbourhoods, inside the Palestinian West Bank and, yeah. I think with that image and the fact that we couldn't see Palestinians in a way that they were able to tell their story, so even though there was this segment in the documentary where we saw Muhammad Harini from Atwaniالتواني village in Masafar Yatta مسافر يطا in South Hebron/al- Khalil in that area where settlers are trying to ethnically cleanse Palestinians and forcibly displace them, there was a lot of missing context in that very segment about the history of Muhammad Harini and his family's life and history, in that area from one side, we saw Theroux living just a tiny bit of the reality of Palestinians daily life, the kind of life that they endure in living in Atwaniالتواني under the threats of settlers and the settler attacks they receive but yeah but that segment wasn't really enough to show you and to tell you the context of Harini's life, and his family's life and why they're enduring what they're enduring, when that started and how those settler attacks are actually impacting them. so Theroux was able to witness firsthand settlers attacks and violence and the settlers’ presence and how that is impacting and threatening the lives of Palestinians in Masafar Yatta مسافر يطا yet Theroux didn't really tell us the story, he didn't really give us the context as to Palestinians living in Atwaniالتواني in Masafar Yatta مسافر يطا. What is what is their life like? and why are they enduring what they're enduring why there are even settlers in that area to begin with. 

RAYAN: At the end of the day is coming from a place whereby Palestinians in western societies we have been and we continue to be dehumanized so our voices are often neglected, exoticized, if they do not fit within white comfort zones, we are instantly marginalized, but what I have a problem with is when people treat Zionism as if it's a spectrum, as though on one side there is the progressive and on the other side you find the colonial and the racist. The lot is colonial and racist, even the progressive side is colonial and racist. I explain this to a lot of my non-Palestinian friends the difference for me between a left-wing Zionist and a right-wing Zionist is that the right-wing Zionist will be upfront with the fact that they want to dispossess you, they want to murder you, they want to shoot you, whereas the left-wing Zionist wants to let you know that they enjoy hummus, that they have a friend who happens to be Arab, that they do belly dancing as a hobby on the side whilst they are murdering you. Louis Theroux in terms of his documentary style, he looks at the extreme if you look at his previous documentaries he'll go to places in the states, whereby he'll interview prison gangs, people engaged in sex work. people engaged in consuming large amounts of drugs like heroin or ice addicts, as an example he'll interview say extremely racist Christian Southern Baptist churches, Scientologists as well, so there's a sort of shock value that he looks for. I think there was one documentary that was called something like you know where he interviewed a whole bunch of convicted child sex abusers or paedophiles and as I was doing some research in terms of getting background of who Louis Theroux was and I came across that documentary, I sort of remembered how horrible it is that the colonial state of Israel is actually a haven for so many child sex offenders and paedophiles who are of the Jewish faith, who actually move and escape and seek refuge in the state of Israel then join the military and have access to plenty of young Palestinians, which frightens the hell out of us! But it's almost like when it comes to Palestine, he'll only focus on the ultra-Zionists, the ones that are more vocal with their racism as opposed to the left-wing ones that are like "No, no don't actually harm them, we need to dispossess them in a way that makes me feel comfortable." As if only the right-wing Zionists or the ultra-conservative racist Zionists are the problem, whereas the progressive Zionists who serve in the military, bombing Palestinians with vegan boots are not the problem? This is what happens when you do not get a Palestinian perspective, you misrepresent our stories which is very infuriating. 

DALAL: That's also the issue with again terminology and reference to Palestinians, but then like so there are two things from one side what I really appreciate about The Settlers is the fact that like Theroux was really just in a way challenging the settlers to really talk, he was really challenging that narrative with trying to get more out of them, in a way that they speak to the things that they're doing and by themselves and that's why you see and you hear those voices that are justifying how they what they're doing is for the ultimate goal that they're serving and making the ‘desert bloom’ and justifying why they're doing what they're doing for the sake of the Jewish state and the Jewish people, but then at the same time from the other side all the time you just hear that Palestinians are referred to as the Arabs, ‘they’, ‘them’, ‘the terrorists’, the attacks and the attackers one thing that really stands out is the focus on the ideology side of the narrative the entire thing it's about the ideology that's because the ideology is what's driving settlers to live inside Palestinian neighbourhoods. 

RAYAN: But what really enraged me was at the end of the first documentary, where Louis Theroux asks a Palestinian whether he feels sorry that the ultra-Zionists feel hostility by Palestinians as they're trying to invade their neighbourhood, like is that the question you ask? This person is here to invade your neighbourhood, wants you gone out of your homeland, ‘yeah do you feel sorry that you're not welcoming them?’ - who the hell asks that? 

DALAL: And then he actually also throws that Hamas thing in the story, and I think that was the very first like segment in the entire documentary where there was a mention of Hamas, because Hamas is throwing rockets so he was framing that entire occupation around, yeah it was as if it's implicitly to tell you that this is the Jewish people ‘self-defence or acts of self-defence; because Hamas is already starting that rocket throwing, and Palestinians are throwing rocks and but then no one is talking about before this all happened, Palestinians were living as they were supposed to be living peacefully inside of their homes, and they are being forced to leave and are facing ethnic cleansing in different shapes and forms, and they have the right to resist, because their resistance is existence but then what ends with just that mere commentary in the first documentary starts with the entire narrative that it's framing the entire situation from the point of 1967 moving forward, as if there is no history before 1967 and again throughout the documentary there is no history before October 7th 2023, so Palestinian's portrayal and tone and voice is very…as if it's like in the background. In the first in the first documentary there was we could see Palestinians we could hear the Palestinians in a way especially that's part of when settlers were taking over Palestinian houses, and the old man the Palestinian who's wearing the white gown he is sitting in front of what remains of his house, and he is trying to make his voice heard, but then Theroux doesn't really take the lead to move forward to talk to him and give him the microphone to speak for himself so there is very limited mostly contextual sort of a background story about Palestinians presence in the place, and then the settlers in ‘The Settlers’ there is more direct interviews and personal stories particularly with the Palestinian activists from Hebron but then that's also it so there is minimal limited Palestinian voices but they're being exposed only through the lens of the settlers. and that's the problematic aspect because settlers don't really acknowledge Palestinians presence, they even don't acknowledge Palestinians exist and they're called Palestinians, they just call them the Arabs, or they, and then if Theroux is challenging oh that so you mean the if these Palestinians whom can they call if they need security and safety and then the settler would say like they would call their police or like they would refer to Palestinians as… and then as Palestinians but then throughout the entire both documentaries the majority is Palestinians are centred as the Arabs,  as the other, as they, and they're dismissed like their narrative role is dismissed and their background story the story of Palestinians is sort of remains in the background with little-to-no  details about what actually happened and why Palestinians are resisting against these atrocious acts of violence they perceive from the settlers on a daily basis. 

RAYAN: What's interesting though, when you look at colonial projects always the settlers will always say that they need to defend themselves from the natives like they'll have that rhetoric so in what we now call New York as white people were taking over the lands of the Lenape, they had the same narrative. In what we now call Chicago, as white people were murdering the nations of the Ojibwe people, and same in terms of Aotearoa New Zealand as white Europeans were murdering Māori people, there was this narrative of ‘but we need to defend ourselves, we need to defend ourselves and our presence’, the same in terms of where I'm residing now on the lands of the Wiradjuri people, the same logic of ‘well, we've destroyed the Wiradjuri food source and they're not happy, we need to defend ourselves, as we're creating these roads whereby they are no longer allowed to enter this terrain anymore, otherwise if they do we will shoot them. oh we've murdered them, and now they're angry, we need to defend ourselves”, it's the same logic in terms of the Zionist settlers, so not only are they denying history of the Nakba and their contribution to how it continues today, but they're mirroring what happens in colonial projects around the world. 

TIKTOKER #1: I’ve seen people saying on Twitter that, you know, Louis Theroux's documentary that's just come out about the settlers, that it's just a small minority, a tiny group of ‘nutters’, but I'd like to remind you guys that is actually 700,000 settlers in the West Bank, that is including in East Jerusalem. Let me say that again, 700,000! The number has actually tripled since the '90s okay, so it's not just a small problem, it's an accelerating one it's a big problem! Don't let these people gaslight you, okay, that number is basically the same number as the number of people in Leeds, which is the third largest city in the UK, there's more people who are settlers in the West Bank than there are people living in Washington DC. Some of you guys have a very strange relationship with the truth a very strange relationship with facts, but that is a fact that is not a small problem, that is not a tiny minority, that is the problem! 

RAYAN: That person you mentioned who's based in in Hebron, Issa Amro? 

DALAL: Yes, Issa Amro, he's actually a prominent Palestinian activist, he's really well known for always being out outspoken and he's one of those human rights defenders, recognized in in in Palestine and also globally. 

RAYAN: There's an interesting scene in the documentary the settlers whereby Louis Theroux gets Issa to donate his time, in terms of showing him around Hebron/Khalil: “This is how we're oppressed, we're not allowed to go to these roads the apartheid systems mean that I have to stay on this side of the road, whereas the colonial population can move back and forth, we experience harassment and violence and torture from the soldiers’ on and on it goes, and then at the end when Louis Theroux and Issa depart ways, Issa explains to him ‘in order for me to get home, I've got to wait at a checkpoint and then I've got to wait again and it might take me a couple of hours or whatever to get home’. This man just donated his time, you watched him being surveilled, you watched him being vilified, he has an unbearable life, Theroux watches how his fellow white Europeans come and go so he sees an explicit apartheid system, Issa tells the story for the benefit of Theroux’s career and the documentary, the least he could have done was keep him company on the way home, seeing; ‘well, what are these checkpoints’. At least show that solidarity, instead he sort of exercises his white privilege and says "That's okay well I'm going to go use the settler road and go back to my hotel." That was so enraging to watch. Theroux is witnessing the colonial population who are armed all the time, they have guns, and these are the people that are calling the ‘Palestinians terrorists’. Yeah, it's almost like Theroux wants to create this binary, whilst he's vilifying Palestinians of “two sides need to get along”. And he can't do it and even when he witnesses it with his own eyes the way he reacts is just extremely poor, it's atrocious. 

DALAL: So there is a starking difference between in this very context about Hebron, so Theroux he arrives at the very checkpoint that he was only showing Palestinians leaving through a checkpoint from the inside of each and that was the only reference that was made to about Al Khalil/Hebron and the that sort of division inside the city because it's there is an H1 and H2 and he didn't really give the context there he didn't really give any background context about what actually is H1, but then like the only thing regarding settlers you could see in inside al Khalil was them taking those field excursions inside the Palestinian neighbourhood, but then again, Theroux he only mentions something abouts that drove Jews out quote unquote, that's really what he said but then he thought he was probably giving more context to the story with the second documentary, so following along with Isa Amro he was going through the checkpoints and Isa was explaining things to him so I think in the second documentary, Theroux was trying to really dig deeper into the situation inside like Tel Rumeida,inside like the occupied Hebron neighbourhoods and maybe it wasn't really the best context to to explain matters, but I think it's really leaving the audience with those questions that you're asking yourself is really hopefully will be the way for people to ask themselves and look for the answers but again, like to be fair Issa made it all the way around and he really also like risked his life even though his like they acknowledge him when he's around but still it doesn't really give him any sense of protection, but then there is another thing about the IOF soldiers themselves that was very interesting that in the first documentary you could see them, you could hear them, you could see their faces they had no shame in being in front of the camera, or I keep saying like they have no shame but really its they didn't really have the that concern of probably considering the repercussions of exposing their faces, exposing themselves in front of the camera, and now what we saw in ‘The Settlers’ they are covering their faces, they know that there's no escape from any way of accountability. 

RAYAN: The Hind Rajab Foundation is probably in their nightmares now. You see, now their social media recording who's murdering us, who's torturing us because the Western world gave them the impression that they were beyond international law justice, and they could do whatever the hell they wanted, now they they felt emboldened to even you know film themselves on social media going to Gaza - I'm sorry I'm going to say something really distressing- going to Gaza, openly putting themselves on social media, depicting themselves trolling through Palestinian women's underwear, destroying toys in a Palestinian early childhood centre, I mean they put these images up themselves.

DALAL: Theroux followed the story of mostly the ‘disputed’ properties in East Jerusalem, and then moving to Al Khalil and Ramallah, in Balein, but then in the second and may like maybe Nablus was present in those settler gatherings around Nablus, under the claim that it's for ‘religious reasons’, but then in the second documentary, we see the focus was heavily on more those the land confiscation under the pretext of those settlement expansions in the shape of those outposts, so we could see more inside the West Bank whereas the focus of the first one was on East Jerusalem and again like stressing on that narrative that this is a property dispute and it's just a matter of somebody having access to papers that give them legitimacy over someone else's property quote unquote, but I don't know if you wanted to say something about this, as how Palestinians losses of their land and homes and me memories and connections to the land really threaten the future generations and this long tradition of us being able to care, and express our existence through our memories and connections to the land. 

RAYAN: So picture this, a young Rayan who is in my hometown of Ramallah, and every time I go for hikes around the mountains of Ramallah, I see a lot of settlements, and this is what I found really ugly about settlements is that when you look at the homes, they all look the same, they're like really ugly, whereas Palestinians- what we do is we build with the mountain, and I'm talking about mountains because where I'm from the mountains of Ramallah, we live with the mountains, we're walking in the mountains, our diet traditionally is carb heavy because we are hiking constantly to work, to school, we're climbing mountains traditionally. It's funny how the settlers who are also claim to be indigenous but what they do is they demolish the top of the mountain, so they bulldoze everything that's there, and they remove the natural agriculture and environment and then import European agricultural plants and plant them there and make the area look like Europe so they feel ‘at home’, while claiming to be indigenous to Palestine. So there are just so many like contradictions going on here, but the environmental devastation is beyond anything we can comprehend, because I'm proud to say that as Palestinians at least we live with the mountain, that's why we structure our homes with the mountain, we walk up and down because we're native to that area whereas colonizers just bulldoze everything there and then replace it so it looks like Europe. I mean, if you want to live in an environment that looks European, perhaps you should move to Europe rather than come and colonize my homeland? 

DALAL: It doesn't make sense that you're burning and cutting olive trees and then you're claiming you're indigenous, and these olive trees are years old, like over hundred years old and if you were indigenous to the land, not the Palestinian are you not supposed to take care of this land? That scene where you see settlers cutting and burning olive trees, it's really just the proof that they're going against the very things that are triggering to them because they know that Palestinians are the ones who planted these olive trees, and they know Palestinians are taking care of these olive trees, and now the bulldozering of the hilltops and removing any sense of the place, removing any identity of the place that is with the olive trees, it's going to be easy for them to bring in people from Europe, from the US, and tell them like "Oh this is an empty land please go ahead and do whatever you want with it and plant the trees that would resemble the neighbourhoods you grew up in”. 

RAYAN: So, we don't restrict the Nakba to the 1948 and the Naksa to 1967, what we're trying to allude to is that the Nakba and the Naksa are experiences of extremely violent settler colonialism, and there's a scene in the documentary which shows the unholy alliance between these two monsters, Daniella Wiess and Ben Gvir, an unholy alliance between the monsters, if I can say that, where they join forces to try and colonize the Gaza Strip or plan to colonize the Gaza Strip, and no surprise there's all these white Americans  who are part of their movement, again reminding us of the fallacy that Zionism involves white Europeans claiming to be indigenous to the Middle East, and there's an interesting scene that Theroux depicts whereby there's this protest where they're watching the bombing  as if they're like going to the cinema and watching they're watching from a distance all these children being murdered, and there's a counter protester there of the left-wing Israelis that are also carrying the Zionist flag, and one of them says something along the lines of “Do we want to be a colonizing country? or a country that offers peace?” so  this Rayan responding now; you're an already colonizing country. Every day, the existence of Israel exists as a colony, as an outpost in the Middle East, if you want peace, you abandon Zionism, enforce the right of return, and create a one-state solution where we all live with the same rights - God forbid, but that's not what Zionism does. So it's like when I see leftwing Israelis that are carrying a flag where they're indicating that they are proud to be part of that colony, the hypocrisy is why I often say that the Zionist left can be just as harmful or even more harmful than the Zionist right. I know I said this before, but the Zionist right, whilst they're blunt in terms of their racism the Zionist left are also racist. The documentary also ignores Palestinians with Israeli citizenship and Palestinians in neighbouring Arab countries, and so again it's this view of you know two geographical areas that need to get along no one geographical area is founded upon the dispossession of the others and most of the people in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are actually from what we call 48 Palestine from Lydd, from Ramleh, from Akka, from Nazareth, that's exactly where they are from.

[JOWAN SAFADA – singing ‘Super White Man’ ]  ♪♪Hello white people, I hope you're doing fine I got a message for you from Palestine♪♪, where everyone is some kind of refugee, no one was left behind to drown in the sea. Maybe the difference was that they were all white, and ♪♪claim to have a god given right, to take my home and call it their own♪♪ and so the refugee was now me♪♪, you see, oh super white man, ♪♪salaam allayikum, how does it feel to solve your problems♪♪ and create one for me, and when will I be free♪♪[Music♪♪]

DALAL: So I got to read through a lot of the commentary people were making on the articles on sharing the links to the documentaries, both documentaries actually because this the second one actually brought back the discussion about the first one the ultra-Zionists, so I think the discussion is really bringing you an insight into the level of awareness and level of education people are at, especially about Palestine and they acknowledge the history, they know about 48 the Nakba and now the Naksa, and the fact that the Palestinian voice was missing is not because we as Palestinians are saying that, but because really it was not really there in the stories, in both documentaries, like I'm sure that the documentaries were made in a way that they wanted to just tell you the story from the Zionist perspective which they did to some extent, they did a good job in giving you that unfiltered Zionist voice that was simply ‘justifying’ themselves for what they do, but it's fair when you have a settler telling you that they are fulfilling that idea and living by the book that is telling them that this is for you it's really fair and just to bring that Palestinian voice into the story because the Palestinian is there, he is existing, he is living in the in that same neighbourhood and that settler who is taking over the property because it's for some ‘dispute’ situation, or that Palestinian is killed by a settler but the circumstances remain ‘unclear’, there is definitely an answer for this violence, there is definitely a reason why a Palestinian child is killed inside their home by a settler, so don't play around that you you're maintaining that ‘neutral journalistic tone’, that you want to bring the story to the audience to judge and critique, but then that's creating a lot of problems with the lack of context with the lack of facts - if facts exist. I think we should also see a third documentary and a fourth documentary by Theroux, by other people as well but at the same time it should be fair that Palestinians are present are heard are represented in these films by themselves, a lot a lot of censoring happens with when there is a Palestinian in in the story whereas there is no censoring or reservation over when a settler is given the platform, and is given the space to talk about their violence and justify that, and I think overall there is bias, there is selective focus there is a specific narrative that leads with that bias in a way and ‘neutrality’. And we need we need more justification we need more we need more factual, contextual references and representation from the Palestinians by Palestinians, similar to what happened with Issa Amro and Muhammad Harini but with more details and more context to what those snippets of their experiences they were able to share and were still present in the documentary after production. 

RAYAN: It shouldn't be hard to value Palestinian voices, we know our story, we've written our story, we've lived our story we've been in Palestine well before there was a state of Israel, we didn't need to import European agriculture in order to feel at home because that is our home, so everyone should know that if you ask the colonial population about what is going on you are not going to get the full story, you are just going to get a rant that tries to legitimize their violence against an indigenous population, and so listeners, if you are going to watch the Theroux documentaries, please do so with a massive grain of salt. Please prioritize our voices above those of colonizers, of settlers, that's the least that can be done, honestly. 

DALAL: I think I would love to hear more people talking about and critiquing and thinking of ways we can give justice to the underrepresented voices. I think in the media all the activism goes about “oh amplifying Palestinian voices and given a platform to talk about this and address that”, but then who is really talking about Palestinians? Who is really talking about the Palestinian story? Even when there is a Palestinian talking about their story, it's always monitored restricted well organized and orchestrated in a way that they talk about the things that will appeal to a certain power a certain audience in a certain way that doesn't really…you know it feels Palestinians when they talk about when we talk about our stories we're on those we're tiptoeing on the eggshells of the insecurities of people, because if you say things in a certain way or use a certain language or use a certain voice people will be discomforted with it, and you have to just like always as a Palestinian, think of what the other would think of you but then, when a white settler is bragging and proudly and openly talking about their acts of service towards the settler colonial state and they use all the terminology and dismiss the entirety of Palestinian existence simply by don't like not saying the word ‘Palestine’, ‘Palestinian’ and just saying like ‘they’, ‘the other one’ but then this other one is right next to you, they're you're the one who's right next to them anyways. 

RAYAN: I just wouldn't want people to watch ‘The Settlers’ and think that the settlers are the problem as if Israeli society is ‘fine’ with us that we have so many freedoms that were able to access our ancestral homes that they dispossessed us from as if there is no apartheid system in state, no, the settlers are a byproduct of this larger colonial project that is dedicated to the erasure of Palestinians, so it is just one manifestation of many barriers. I want listeners to really consider if they if they're going to watch that documentary.

DALAL: And also I think it's fair to also say that we're not really criticizing Theroux by like himself, I think it's important that when people look at this work that Theroux and people like him make about Palestine and create, we're not really talking about the person, we're talking about the narration, I mean that entire story that is now being widely circulated, and viewed, and criticized, and uploaded, and perceived in different ways for different people which is which is really good, like we really need that critique and discussion and agreement and disagreement to be able to put our fingers on all the things that we need to improve on and when we know that a certain platform is doing some work, it's really healthy that there is this sort of feedback and criticism and discussion so they can improve, and even if they knew already all these things will come after all the work they're doing, we're not really discussing the film or the documentaries because it's somebody who made them, I think we need to look at the entirety of the media industry itself and how the media for decades has been putting Palestinians in the backstory, and when they talk about Palestine and Palestinians it has to be controlled, and it has to be monitored, and it has to be presented in a very specific way - this has to change now! Tt really has to change, and it's about time things change because the human in the story is always there and you have to frame that story around the human themselves not just the human is out of the context and then it's just the acts and the events alone that are happening, but then the voice is not there, the story is not there, the human is not there.

TIKTOKER #2: You guys do know that the documentary is not showing us or telling us anything that anyone listening to Palestinians hasn't seen or heard already? I’m not saying it's not good, I’m not saying it doesn't warrant praise, it is and it does, but one of those reasons is because the whites will listen to the whites. Before we all get on here and heap praise on this man for doing something different and breaking it down, and ‘this is going to make a difference’. Everything he has said and shown, has been said and shown by Palestinians endlessly. If this one all of a sudden is breaking your brain, you need to sit with that. This entire structure, where y'all are moved to hop on here and heap praises on this man for saying exactly what Palestinians have been saying and showing forever - is part of the problem! 

RAYAN: I’m wondering whether our listeners might reflect on our discussion and on some of the podcast streaming platforms there is an option whereby you can send us a text, so you might want to send us a text and let us know your reflections, if you're joining us via the YouTube link, you might want to comment in terms of some of your reflections on our discussions. Have you seen the Theroux documentary? Have you seen any of his documentaries? what are your thoughts? let us know, we'd like to hear from you all. 

DALAL: Absolutely, and not just this episode but all the other episodes as well we really care about your feedback and your opinions and your suggestions and any topics that are intersectional within the vegan movement and you think we can talk about please feel free to comment reach out we we're looking forward to hearing your thoughts and suggestions.

[JOWAN SAFADA – singing ‘War is Over ]  ♪♪To those who said:
"Don't get used to the scene," ♪♪
Whether you like it or not, ♪♪
In the end, you'll get used to it. ♪♪

You'll get used to seeing genocide   ♪♪
And continue living normally. ♪♪
And with every moment of joy, ♪♪
You'll feel guilty and miserable. ♪♪

Day and night, on the news, ♪♪
Searching for good news. ♪♪
Someone admitting defeat, ♪♪
Someone declaring victory, ♪♪
Someone saving us and declaring ♪♪
A ceasefire. ♪♪

The fire consumed everyone, ♪♪
And it's not done yet. ♪♪
The media plants in your head ♪♪
That those who ignited it will extinguish it. ♪♪

Day and night, on the news, ♪♪
Waiting for a ceasefire, ♪♪
Waiting for mercy from scoundrels. ♪♪
Biden said, and Biden repeated— ♪♪
Oh, so he repeated. ♪♪
Biden massacred. ♪♪

Blinken came, Blinken left, ♪♪
Maybe Blinken brought weapons. ♪♪
Blinken the butcher. ♪♪

Day and night, on the news, ♪♪
Waiting for news that says, "It's over." ♪♪
The war is over. ♪♪
The war is over. ♪♪

They said on the news: ♪♪
The villains are gone, ♪♪
And the war is over. ♪♪

JOWAN SAFADI: I can only hope.